Not defensive in the slightest, Pandora. Taking the time to explain details of my feelings on the state of tattooing in America today, and the travesty of shitty tattoo work that continues to reinforce public perceptions of negative stereotypes of the trade I love most in this life is NOT being defensive personally, but instead being "defensive of the cause" of quality tattooing. IF you feel that's not a tattooer's business to have such feelings, I can't say much more that'll interest you, but you're saying that tattooers have a responsibility to do what the client "WANTS", I just feel that tattooers have MORE of a responsibility to insure the tattooer understands that the client is NOT "wanting" less than is possible, based on poor understanding of what good tattoo and art work CAN do.

It's also important that they get the best ARTISTIC advice and input from the tattooer that's possible, and that includes being willing to educate your clients that the preconceptions most people bring with them when they walk into a tattoo studio are, for the most part, poorly informed artistically and lacking in a real understanding of what is possible with a tattoo when a competent tattooer is putting their professional expertise into the process, but most importantly, that the tattooer educate the client about what the particular tattooer is capable of doing for them, should they have considered the process from an informed perspective in the first place. Saying "it's about THEM and what THEY want" MUST consider the level of knowledge the client possessed at the time he or she DECIDED what THEY want. IF that information upon which they chose to make their decisions is inaccurate, shouldn't it be the tattooer's responsibility to educate them sufficiently to find out if what THEY want wasn't too severely limited by what THEY "thought" a tattooer was capable of, or what THEY "knew" were the limitations of a tattoo's artistic component?

That doesn't put down the client's lack of understanding, but instead accepts it as something that just is, and allows the tattooer to offer more thoroughly considered artistic options without compromising artistic or professional integrity. I've seen countless clients walk through the door with their own "design" that their buddy drew for them, which, when investigated carefully, turned out to be based on false assumption of what a good tattooer should or should not be capable of, both artistically and in terms of possibility in the tattoo medium.

As for pain issues, if someone is asking "how much a tattoo is going to hurt", the simple fact is that EVERYONE has a different experience, with person A being unable to deal with the discomfort of a tattoo on the bicep, while person B is able to sleep through a full rib tattoo experience of many hours. Hell, many people have BOTH experiences, depending on what body part you're tattooing. When you get right down to it, pointing out that "we ain't covered with them because we hate it", added to "how many people have you seen in your life who didn't end up going back for more, no matter what it "felt like"? How many only had ONE tattoo?" Sure, there's a LOT of people with only one tattoo, but it's not because tattoos are unbearably painful for the vast majority of people when the machine is in the hand of a competent tattooer. Sure, getting tattooed on the ribs is one of those places where you will KNOW you're getting tattooed, but that didn't stop the four different clients of mine in the last month whose FIRST tattoo was a LARGE piece on the side from near the top of the ribs to the pelvic girdle (the top of the hip). One of them complained about the discomfort the entire time, but lay still for the hours involved in doing the entire tattoo, and the other three just took it as part of the "cost" of getting the tattoo "THEY wanted".

Telling people to get a tattoo they DIDN'T consider, like "get something small first that can be added on to" is artistically less than it could be, since "adding on" to most tattoos limits the artistic integrity of the piece to "piecework" rather than something that was designed with composition fundamentals and tattoo realities in mind. That's NOT about what "THEY want", but about what YOU recommended they do, simply because they're afraid it might hurt a lot. It's a TATTOO, not a kitten, and sometimes tattoos hurt. Then you say "so long as you get paid, what's the big deal?" (paraphrase), which is both a BIG part of what's keeping tattooing, for the most part, for being the best it could be. We teach our apprentices that "no matter how small or cheezy, that tattoo MUST be the best tattoo you've ever done, both mechanically and artistically, within the confines of the limits of the clients wishes and budget, of course".

The fact that so damned many small tattoos we see are so poorly drawn and executed is NOT because the clients are getting what "THEY want", but instead because a LOT of tattooers have ZERO artistic fundamentals education, and an even sketchier knowledge of tattoo mechanics and skin/pigment/needle dynamics. Just once I'd like to see that little tattoo on someone's ankle to have FLAWLESS linework, even if it's a heart and a flower the size of a quarter. Instead, 7 times out of 10, the linework is spotty, blown out, uneven, or just plain wobbly, and the amount of scarring we see is inexcusable, and you can NOT blame the client for bad tattoo work.

>>"Sometimes people make stupid choices, it's none of my business, i will advise them otherwise, but ultimately it's up to them"<<

Yeah, you can't make people's decisions for them, but you CAN choose not to participate in doing tattoos that will allow your customer to leave the studio LESS ATTRACTIVE then when they walked in, something MANY tattooers seem to never consider might be part of their client's wishes and an integral part of what "THEY want".